Mediaphyter - Jennifer Leggio

Fortinet’s expansive product portfolio includes enterprise firewalls, security solutions for MSSPs and telco carriers, database security and email security appliances in addition to our SMB offering. Therefore I need to spread the love across all of our different market segments and I personally spend a lot of time focusing on enterprise deployment scenarios. Our marcom and product marketing teams, however, do a great job of creating tools (speakers and events, road shows, etc.) and collateral for our channel partners who sell to the SMB. Also, I think it’s important to clarify that digital media is only about 10 percent of my current job. I spend the largest chunks of my time managing global industry analyst relations and working with our threat research teams on their communications.

You are blogging for ZDNet, what topics do you cover there and how do you get the interviews? Are they arranged for you or do you pursue them?

I write about what I like to call “social business.” Which basically means I try to find companies — preferably Fortune 500 or enterprise tech companies — who are doing interesting things and benefiting from implementing some sort of social program. I also write a touch about social media and security as well as public relations challenges in this social media world. I arrange all of my own interviews and develop my own content calendar. Our editors are great. They give us guidance when we need it and might make some suggestions for site-wide story packages, but they trust us to produce the best work we know how.

In an article about your new tattoo, you describe this as somewhat of a personal overture to allow yourself the ability to become more transparent. Specifically to allow your personal and professional lives to be a bit more intertwined. For those fighting the same battle, why choose to do it and how have you benefited?

It’s a personal decision. I wouldn’t recommend to anyone to do or not to do it. I personally find it very natural to just be one person in all places. You can ask anyone I’ve ever worked with or worked for, I march to the beat of my own drum and I embrace my personality no matter where I am. There is no “buttoned up Jen” and “casual Jen.” They are the same person. I found it exhausting to even try to attempt that and doing all of this social media stuff gave me a reason and an avenue for further melding everything together. There are still bumps and hurdles along the way. It can be stressful living so transparently at times. But I’ve also mastered the art of privacy in a world of transparency. Like I said, this is the benefit I experienced, but everyone needs to make this decision for him- or herself. A lot also depends on your company culture, too. If you work for a financial services firm or you’re in a legal profession, you’re going to think more deeply than a marketing girl who also writes about this kind of stuff on a daily basis.

I am a total metal-head, and come to find out, that’s your thing as well. Give us your top 3 favorite bands and what you like about them the most.

I am a metal fan but I am not a total metalhead. My more metal friends would laugh if they saw you call me that. I listen to everything but I do have a soft spot in my heart for metal and nothing — I mean nothing — gets me moving more than a good rock band. I’m taking the liberty of expanding this to metal / rock versus just metal:

TOOL – Have you ever heard that bass line about two-thirds of the way into “Eulogy”? Every time I hear that I am convinced I could die happy. Pun intended.Yet I feel that way about most TOOL songs.

30 Seconds to Mars – This band is a lyrical pleasure for me though I definitely enjoy the music. This is also one of those bands I feel compelled to point out that I loved before they got all popular and eyeliner-ish. If you don’t believe me you can ask my friend Hillary. We drove all the way to Santa Barbara about six years ago just to catch them with a favorite local band of mine called Strata.

System of a Down – I’m a sucker for political / movement rock. I never really got die-hard about Rage Against the Machine but SOAD, especially the “Toxicity” album, gets me in the heart. I can say the same for Serj Tankian’s current solo work. I can’t say the same for Daron Malakian’s Scars on Broadway. I want my SOAD back.

Ties for fourth? As I Lay Dying / Lamb of God/ Killswitch Engage / Static X / Dimmu Borgir / The Booda Velvets (I know you didn’t ask but I feel empty not saying something about them)

What do you find to be the most compelling reasons to personally brand yourself, even if you are working for another brand?

If you make the decision to develop a personal brand, I think it’s necessary to make sure it is removed from your corporate brand to some extent. Why? Because you can take that with you to your next company, of course. Look at Richard Binhammer of Dell as one great example. Everyone knows him as Dell’s “social media guy.” He wears the Dell brand proudly. However, we know him first as Richard and, heaven forbid, if he ever leaves Dell his brand will carry him. If he was merely “Dell Guy” then he’d have to start from scratch in his next gig. I also believe, and it’s been proven, that companies benefit from having a more human element associated with their external corporate culture. The years of a company being identified by merely its assigned spokesperson or executive team are over. Every employee can be a voice for his or her company now — you just have to mind your corporate policies and make sure what you can do and how loudly you can do it.

Note from Craig: If you enjoyed this interview, you might also enjoy an interview I had done previously with Mack Collier! Please leave comments if something moves you, if you have some thoughts, or you have an opinion or question. Thanks for Reading!

Social Media Maven - and More!

Q: It doesn’t seem like many teams in professional sports are involved in social media. How did your job with the Detroit Red Wings come along?

A: Social media is still new to most companies as well as those in professional sports. My position with the Red Wings was a rare opportunity. This was a situation where the organization created a new position and sought out somebody to help them implement social media and other aspects of digital marketing into the team’s overall business development strategy.

Q: Our Twitter guest question comes from @anwith1n who asks, “Seriously, I would like to know what @shannonpaul would be doing if she weren’t in Social Media?”

A: I’m sure I would be working in communications. I like to consider myself a communicator, connector and strategist — or at least a budding communicator, connector and strategist. I just took to the social media ethos — I always thought it was better to be as real and human as possible in communications. Social media just offered a way of engaging, practicing and testing that theory.

Q: You wrote a post called “Why communicators should get to know SEO” in which you have noted your desire to increase your knowledge about the technical portion of being in Social Media. What prompted this desire and why would others want to follow your lead?

A: Sooner or later, this new way of communication will be common sense. I think it’s great to understand how to adapt business communication strategies from a monologue to a dialogue, but digital strategy doesn’t end there. In order to be effective in communication and business, I think those that will move ahead of the pack will have a strong understanding of how information travels and how dollars are exchanged with the flow of traffic and information on the internet.

Q: One of the “7 random and weird things” about you was the fact that you sold everything you owned and moved to Denver for 2 years. How do you relate that experience of freedom with what you bring to Social Media?

A: I guess this behavior exemplifies a trait you find amongst a lot of people who are passionate about social media. In order to devote most of your free time to learn something in such a non-traditional way — reading other blogs, blogging and diving head-first into social networks, you have to be a little bit of a cowboy, or a pirate as Chris Brogan likes to say. Most of the people I’ve met through involvement in social media dove into this with little thought of personal profit, or simply with the very small hope that maybe someday all this effort to would pay off in one way or another. It’s a big gamble to spend so much time and effort on something as silly as a blog or reading other peoples’ blogs — especially when most of the people in your life don’t really understand what you’re doing! I think that quality is what separates those of us who have real passion from others who simply smell a trend.

Q: You are organizing the upcoming Startup Weekend Detroit (Mar. 27-29). Can you explain what that is, and why other cities would benefit from doing the same?

A: The Startup Weekend organization was founded by Andrew Hyde in Boulder, Colorado. There have been several Startup Weekends in cities across the country and even in Europe. Basically the event gathers together creatives and people with technical skills to launch new companies within a single weekend. Each event is different since the direction is largely determined by the people who show up. I live in Detroit and I was raised here. There are hard times across the country right now, but Detroit is under even more intense strain than most in the U.S. I really believe that the future of this city lies in the ability to bring people together to get great ideas off the ground. Nobody becomes successful in a vacuum. We need each other. Events like Startup Weekend help bring people together with a variety of skills to roll up their sleeves, work side by side and get things done. I attended Startup Weekend in Ann Arbor, Michigan last year. What struck me most about the event was the fact that so much was accomplished in a single weekend. This experience leaves people who attend with the feeling that anything really is possible if you work together. What city couldn’t benefit from a little of that?

Matt McGee, Assignment Editor, Search Engine Land

Q: Matt, you have been the creator and editor of a site call @U2, about the band with that name. Where do you get your information from and how reliable are your sources? Also please tell us a bit about your new book U2, a Diary.

A: First, Craig, thanks for the chance to chat. I’ve been enjoying the earlier interviews you’ve posted.

The book just came out in November, and was the result of a couple years of research and writing — not to mention the help of fans around the world. When I announced the book was being written, I also launched a blog to share updates about my progress. But it also gave me the chance to put out calls for help, and U2 fans were great at helping out. I’d publish some question or request for a missing piece of information, and without fail I had answers within a matter of days, if not hours. It was a real Web 2.0 writing experience! The end result is a complete history of the band that I tell in a timeline format with diary-style entries. Fan response has been really great since it was published, and I’m super grateful for that.

The web site dates back to October, 1995, and to answer your question … I certainly think our sources are reliable because we always self-police what we report. When you own a popular web site (or blog, or whatever), people start bringing information and tips to you. It almost becomes a self-sustaining thing. Posting juicy news and rumors leads to more juicy news and rumors being shared! At this point, we get fans all over the world emailing information to us. They get it from their local radio, TV, or newspaper. We also have a network of friends around the world who have contacts in the music industry, at record labels, etc. And we’ve developed our own contacts and resources, too, of course. A fair amount of music journalists will email us when they report something U2-related so that we can share it with our readers.

Q: You also are the principal of the SEMMYs, can you tell how this awards idea was developed and how one can qualify as a judge or a recipient? How long have you been involved with it?

A: The 2nd annual SEMMY Awards will happen this month. I started it last year because there were already a few web sites giving out awards to bloggers and writers, but no one was recognizing the actual content.

To me, it was like awarding the actors and directors, but not the movies. So, the SEMMYs are all about content. The judges are fellow marketers whom I know and trust to be familiar with the categories they’re judging, and who volunteer to help out by reviewing nominees and choosing finalists. The best way to become a nominee is to publish great content and get it seen on the social web — via Twitter, Sphinn, StumbleUpon, Delicious, etc. As long as the content is about online marketing, everyone’s eligible!

Q: Our twitter guest question comes from @kevinseoames who asks “When targeting a specific city for local seo is it wise to also target its suburbs or is the main city enough?”

A: The answer to almost every SEO question, including this one, is “it depends.” I think the answer to this one depends on the area you’re talking about and the industry you’re in. I’ll use our hometown as an example: I don’t know for sure, but I doubt many people go to Google and search for “computer repair west richland” or “computer repair benton city.” (Those are two suburbs of the Tri-Cities, for those who don’t know.) So, if I’m a computer repair shop, I’d probably focus on phrases that cover the three main cities and then “tri-cities,” too.

But, I know from having a wife in real estate that people do search for homes in the suburbs. When it comes to picking a place to live, people sometimes have very specific requirements, and their behavior on Google (and Yahoo, MSN, etc.) reflects that. Either way, the best thing to do is start a PPC campaign that targets all the keywords you’re considering and see which ones actually get search traffic. Then do your SEO accordingly.

Q: On the Small Business Search Marketing website, your personal information indicates “I’ve consulted for companies as big as Target.com and as small as a mom and pop selling handcrafted wooden pens from their garage.” Tell us a bit about the Target job, that sounds like an SEO’s dream opportunity!

A: Ha! Not sure I’d describe it that way, because it was my first project after leaving my longtime Tri-Cities job and going to work for a Big Company in Seattle. It was more than a little intimidating, to be frank! Not sure how much I should say, but it was basically an audit of their web site and a consultation at their corporate headquarters in Minneapolis. The trip and presentation was great, and an excellent experience to say the least. The people we met with were good, smart people — but in a tough position, because they were (and still are, I think) using Amazon.com’s e-commerce platform. So, they were at the mercy of a competitor in terms of what changes they could make to their site. That’s a tough situation, as you can imagine. You’re right — it was a great opportunity, but I don’t know how many of our recommendations they were able to implement.

Q: On a personal note, you are also an active photographer and have many of your photos in a Flickr group. I personally use a Nikon D60 which I am still learning quite a bit about. What’s your camera of choice, and what kinds of tips would you give to us about photography and using Flickr?

A: I’m still using a 3-year-old Canon Powershot S3, which came out when DSLRs were still more than $1,000. One of these days I may get around to upgrading, but it’s enough camera for what I do.

Flickr tips should always start with Groups. People tend to think of Flickr as a photo storage service, but the heart of Flickr is the Groups. That’s where you get to meet and chat with people who share interests with you. And if you’re a local business, there’s a Flickr Group for your hometown/area — I guarantee it. So, more than just uploading photos, if you get active in the right groups, you can make connections with people who might be interested in your products or services. It’s social media, so of course you can’t do the hard sell thing. Just hang out and get to know people. And yes, share photos when appropriate. I also like to link from my photos to related blog posts. Then, when someone sees the photo in our group, they might also click through and become a blog reader.

Ann Handley, Chief Content Officer at MarketingProfs

A: Yes. I head up content at MarketingProfs, a resource that offers actionable know-how to help people market their products and services both smarter and better. Oops — does that sound like a commercial? (lol) We have about 321,000 entrepreneurs, small-business owners and marketers as subscribers. As head of content, that means I manage a team that produces content for our Web site, newsletters, conferences, seminars, blog, and so on.

Our contributors come from all walks of life — from the largest corporations to the small companies to solo consultants. They are usually folks that are on my radar in one way or another… because they tend to be leaders in their fields, or writers, or speakers, or content producers in their own right before they meet up with ‘Profs.

Q: Our twitter guest question comes from @adambrault, who asks “What’s the most creative and effective ‘guerilla’ marketing methods you’ve seen?”

A: Wow — that’s a tough one. I guess I’d have to say that most guerilla marketing tactics I hear about impress me less than viral marketing tactics — the difference being that guerrilla marketing ambushes the viewer when he or she least expects it, while viral marketing is content that someone opts to pass around their network because it’s interesting, or cool, or intriguing in some way. Am I pulling a Sarah Palin by answering a different question than the one that was asked…? ; )

Seriously, there are some guerilla marketing tactics that I think are clever. Here in Boston, the Cartoon Network’s late night Adult Swim animated television series “Aqua Teen Hunger Force” got some attention a while ago when their magnetic light displays in and around the city were mistaken for possible explosive devices. That was clever — if a little irresponsible in a post 9-11 world — but it definitely got attention. Viral stuff — things that folks willingly pass around to each other — seems a better approach to me, however.

Q: Over at your personal blog, AnnHandley.com, you have titled the blog A n n a r c h y because of the “general state of disorder and occasional (yes!) chaos” in your life. Do you have long term goals for what you hope to accomplish with your blog? Do you see an end to the chaos?

A: I started A n n a r c h y almost a year ago because I wanted a place to write about stuff I wanted to write about — all the non-marketing flotsam, the non-business jetsam, the real stuff that’s under the hood, the underbelly, the chaos inside. All that stuff that had been bouncing around inside of me — and inside a lot of us — but I had never really written down. It’s a little scary to write about sometimes, but I felt compelled.

I started it with no particular goal beyond that. But I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the way people relate to it. I love writing there — mostly, aside from the occasional fear I still have — but I love the comments almost more, and community of people who have become regular readers. That’s pretty cool, and I’m grateful for every one of them.

And no, the chaos is ongoing. At least, I hope so. Life would be boring without an underbelly.

Q: The Huffington Post is quite the gig! Tell us about about how you got chosen to contribute!

A: I asked. Seriously… it wasn’t any more difficult than that. HuffPo is a great publication, and Arianna Huffington is one of my personal inspirations for what she’s accomplished. What’s great about the publication is that it is inclusive of all kinds of voices.

Q: What does Ann like to do for fun when she isn’t blogging or sharing her wisdom on Twitter?

A: Well, I just finished beating both of my kids at Wii tennis. I just love to make them cry….

Seriously, I do work a lot, and when I’m not working, I’m usually taxiing the kids someplace. But when I’m not doing either, I love hanging with my two kids, walking my lovable and silly dogs, sharing a bottle of wine with my longtime boyfriend, or reading a really good book on the beach in southern Maine, which is probably my most favorite place on earth. Don’t tell anyone — but I’m kinda boring.

Q: Our twitter guest question comes from @brandmarken, who asks. “I’d like to know how @MackCollier got his start and how he became a such a guru.”

A: I started blogging in 2005 when I was invited to write for a group advertising/marketing blog that was starting called Beyond Madison Avenue. After about 6 months BMA had grown to about 2,000 visitors a day, and I decided it was time to start my own blog, The Viral Garden. And I’m happy to say it’s been growing like a weed ever since.

As for being a ‘guru’, I dunno about that. One thing I have always done is pay close attention to how other people use social media. And when I find someone that uses a tool/site really well (such as being a power Twitter user, or a power Facebooker), I try to see what is working for them, and adjust my usage accordingly. And I am constantly looking for new bloggers in particular to read, because I always learn so much from fresh voices with fresh perspectives on social media.

But of course the best way to be seen as a ‘guru’ is to have Tom mention you in one of his Ad Age articles ;)

Q: If you could only give a Small Business one method to get involved in Social Media, what would it be and why?

A: First, let me say that I don’t think there’s just ‘one’ right social media site/tool that a small business should be using, nor do I think that every business (of any size) should be using social media. It really depends on whether or not your current and/or potential customers are using these tools to communicate with each other, and if you WANT to communicate with them. If your customers are blogging, fine, you probably need to be a participant in the conversations they are having about you and your industry. If they are on Twitter, you should probably be there.

So there really isn’t a ‘one size fits all’ social media site/tool for small businesses. If I had to pick one that I think the most small businesses could benefit from using, it would probably be a blog.

Q: Most Small Business cannot afford to have a full time Social Media Consultant, how can they go about finding someone to help them and what should they expect to pay if they outsource?

That’s a great question because there aren’t many resources that list or evaluate social media consultants. I would start by doing some research on Google, for terms like ‘top bloggers’ or ‘top twitter users’, and once you have some names, then go and Google those individual names. That will give you a great idea of how actively they are using social media, and will also give you their site/blog so you can find out if they offer social media consulting services. This information should be on their blog and/or site. Or if you are already active on these sites, just ask. Ask your Twitter followers who you should be contacting, or if you are LinkedIn, submit a question to the Q&A section asking who you should be contacting.

As for fees, I think it depends on the rates the consultant charges, and the scope of the work requested. Some charge by the hour, others by the project. I would say a business should expect to pay over $100 an hour for a consultant, with $150-250 an hour being more likely.

One thing I would strongly advise businesses that approach a social media consultant is to make SURE that part of the services they provide include training your business on using these tools. If you hire a consultant to create and execute a blogging strategy for you, make SURE that they also train you on how to properly blog. I make sure that all the social media work I perform includes a training element, because I want to drive my clients toward being self-sufficient when it comes to social media. Otherwise, your business will continually have to hire consultants to help you with your efforts. Insist that the consultant offer training, and don’t hire one that won’t.

Q: You have spoken at my Conference, “Learn About Web” and by all accounts the favorite speaker of the day. What do you think draws your crowd into your message?

A: Well I’m honored to hear that, as I enjoyed speaking at Learn About Web very much. One thing I like to do is add case studies to help illustrate the main points of my presentation. I think it’s much easier for attendees to understand how to successful utilize a blog, if you can show them examples of how businesses are doing just that. Real-world examples also give your teachings more credibility.

Something else I am mindful of is not to be ‘detached’ from the audience. Especially when speaking to audiences that are new to social media, I want to make the audience feels comfortable asking questions, because if more questions are being asked, everyone learns more. For example, at a recent conference, the room I was supposed to present in had a stand and desk up at the very front of the room about 10 feet away from the audience. It was set up like a standard college classroom, which I didn’t think would encourage the type of interaction I wanted. I noticed that the projector stand was in the middle of the room, so I moved my laptop and chair to present from there, which placed me in the middle of the room.

By doing this, and encouraging attendees to ask questions when I started, the tone of the presentation changed from being my lecturing to the audience, to instead leading them in a breakout session. I think it made the session much more informative, because I think it encouraged the attendees to ask questions, and to interact with each other. From my experience, the more involved the audience is in the session, the better it is for everyone.

Q: So you run a company called Virtual Hires, can you tell me about about your companies goals?

A: Our mission is to help small and medium sized web-based businesses grow by providing quality and affordable staffing solutions.

Q: What made you decide to get in this business?

A: I had quite a bit of exposure to outsourcing at my previous job, including outsourcing IT, production, and creative. When I began working for myself, I had hired a virtual assistant and was really impressed with the results I got from her link building and content writing efforts. I found my virtual assistant to be very easy to work with. She spoke English fluently, was web-savvy, polite and was very familiar with American slang and pop culture. She spoke with just a slight accent, and was willing to work on US time which make working with her really easy. Having my virtual assistant do the day-to-day lower value tasks made it possible for me to focus my energy on growing my business. It ultimately has made me more profitable.

As I began sharing my experience with other small business owners, they asked how they too could take advantage of outsourcing. After receiving several of these requests, I decided to open up a full-time business offering web staffing services to other small business. I hired a few employees, began successfully matching clients and employees, and have never looked back.

Q: Tell me how you use or plan to use Social Media in your business pursuits?

A: This is something that we do for our clients all the time, but something we haven’t done too much for ourselves. (Most all of our business comes from word of mouth referrals.)
Here are some of the things we have done for our clients and will be incorporating more for ourselves as time goes on:

• Social Networking Sites – Facebook, LinkedIn, etc. – A great way to share news and to keep in touch with clients. Personal relationships are the crux of any business. We tend to trust people we know well, and these sites offer a degree of transparency and accessibility.
• Bookmarking, Tagging, Blog Commenting, and Participating in Forums – Keeps the conversation going.
• Online Video – Increasingly popular way to share, demonstrate, and educate.
• Blogging – An easy way to build community, and share updated information.
• Microblogging – This is great way to keep promote news and share tips.

Q: Do you attend conferences? Which ones and why?

A: Yes. I love the Affiliate Summit West. Apart from escaping the Cleveland winter for a few days, it is a great place to network and to keep abreast with industry trends. I went to the Search Engine Guide’s Small Business Unleashed Marketing Conference in Columbus for the first time this Fall. I loved this conference for the small, family feel. I made some great connections and will definitely attend again.

Q: I see you enjoy the outdoors. What is your favorite outdoor sport? Tell me a bit about what you get out of it.

A: I do enjoy the outdoors. My favorite outdoor sport? That’s a tough one. I am an avid, year-round hiker.

Hiking provides exercise, and an outlet for my tremendous amount of energy. More than anything, I find a sense of renewal by being outside. It’s hard for me to stop thinking about work. When I step outside, I am able to get outside of my own head. Being outside is an act of cleansing for me. As I take in the sights and sounds around me, and as I am surrounded by the beauty of the natural world, I leave my comfort zone. I relax. I am inspired. I appreciate. Most importantly, I find perspective. I am then able to focus on what matters most to me: relationships.

Other notes: Check out her recent plug in US News & World Report!

A: Liz started as a publisher and teacher and was teaching while still in school. In 8th grade Liz would help with the 1st grade class. She has been teaching all her life in one shape or form. Liz always felt that writing came naturally for her. Her specialty was in educational publishing.

Q: I’ve noticed that Chris Brogan has an assistant, are you a one woman show? If not, who is behind the scenes?

A: Liz wishes she did have an assistant, along the way a couple times she had some guest bloggers and help with “open comment night” on her blog. She would love to have an assistant, but hasn’t figured out quite how to do that.

Q: Ive seen you defined on lizstrauss.com as Connector, Producer and Rainmaker… I would think your ability as a Connector and a Producer cause the Rainmaking effect, the customer loyalty, but what inspires you most and why?

A: Liz is all about people, she likes connecting one person to another, she gets frustrated when ideas and people are not connected and is inspired to make those connections to create a symphonic order. Its about connecting people and you can only do that if your connected yourself!

Q: You have this interesting club called the “SOB’s” which stands for Successful and Outstanding Bloggers. Some I recognize and some I do not. How do you choose a blog for the list? Is there a set of criteria? Do you choose alone?

A: No panel here, she filters blogs, looking for community. The very first week she started blogging, Started Sept of 2005, she wanted to thank 3 people who linked to her website. The concept was to thank her Evangelists! It started with just a couple people talking, not a great marketing scheme.

There was a couple criteria discussed, but of those items the key factor was to pick up the conversation and take it somewhere. Some SOB’s don’t have blogs, they have built great relationships via email. Many are even self nominated. But they have to show relationship and community.

Another criteria, she wont give anyone the badge unless blog is at least 4 months old… she wants to see people break the “90 day trial” syndrome as a blogger and continue at it. She indicated many bloggers stop posting quickly once they don’t see the instantaneous results they had hoped for.

Liz regularly monitors and clears the database if the blog “goes dark” or no longer ads value to the blogosphere. “This ensures the value for those still on this list” she says.

Q: Do you have any new articles or ebooks coming out? A bit of information on them?

A: While she doesn’t want to give away too many details, she is working on an ebook, more useful information for the corporate world, How to get companies online.

Additional Notes from Liz!

She would like you to know that SOBCon09, as she describes it, the “Cirque du Soleil” of Conferences, is moving forward. They are looking for sponsors for this and other events. Please contact Liz for more information.